Does anyone think that the belt system in martial arts gives students a false sense of security?

I have always felt that the belt system in martial arts should be eliminated. Several reasons. First, students tend to want to get the next ranking and do the minumum just to get their sensei approval instead of learning what martial arts are really about. Second. They create animosity among students in the class that differ in ranks. Also they lead students to believe that they have skill they prob dont and are only walking around in a brown or black belt all just because the sensei likes them.|||Half the people here aren%26#039;t really answering the question...





Does anyone think that the belt system in martial arts gives students a false sense of security?





Yes. I think it does.





But that doesn%26#039;t mean I don%26#039;t see the need for the belt system.


I just try to make the best of it...|||I really think it all depends on the instructor and the school. We are taught that Black Belt is basicly where you are now able to really start learning. Everything you have done to that point has just prepared your mind and body to truly learn, almost like basic training. We also stress that no matter how good you are, there is always someone better.





I have seen schools with the mentality and people that get their black belt and think it makes them invincible also, and I just have to shake my head. So i guess yeah it all depends on the school and the importance they place on the belt.





I think belts can be an excellent training aid, because it does give the students goals, but we try to stress that each belt is only a step, and that it shouldn%26#039;t be a destination, merely a step on the path. We really emphisyze enjoying the journey.





Of course I bow down to the awesome ksnake and his years of MMA training.|||most studios/dojos shouldn%26#039;t be doin what you%26#039;re saying, mine doesn%26#039;t. the whole %26quot;superiority%26quot; of a rank thing among peers can be benefitical because the one thats %26quot;inferior%26quot; will push themselves to be as %26quot;good%26quot; as the other student. as for being promoted, the sensei should test each student equally regardless of what style of martial arts it is.





I think the belt system is good for younger people cause it gives them something to look foward to and keep their attention. as for adults, i dont think its needed because they should be looking at what they are learning, not what they need to do for the next belt.|||fast fist got it right .The OKINAWAN karate pioneers to have their art recognized were more or less forced to adopt KANO%26#039;s judo belt system and other arts just followed along.They had no ranking system until that time.





To truly represent skill and dedication using the belt system the time from white belt to black belt should be 8 to 10 years .


Western karate which every one thinks is traditional karate is so lacking in content it couldn%26#039;t hold most peoples interest for 8 to 10 years unless they could strut around with a black belt for most of that time.


There is traditional karate which few people practice anymore there are belts but no one is considered above or below anyone else .


there is western sport karate which is what most people are learning and think is traditional karate because it has a traditional name and belts are the only goal.


then there is non karate styles kung fu/ silat etc.the non karate styles usually dont have belts.|||I agree with you whole heartedly. Many of the earliest fighting styles had no belt-ranking system. What happened was that when Asian martial arts masters immigrated to Western countries they soon discovered that they needed to have belt-ranking systems in order to attract Westerners into their studios and dojos. Wing Chun had no belts until it came to the West, neither did the Greek fighting style of Pankration. A colored belt does nothing but keep your gi from coming apart. Most black belts wouldn%26#039;t dare fight a San Quentin inmate, or a Hell%26#039;s Angel, or a street tough gang member. The color of a person%26#039;s belt can definitely give them a false sense of security.|||The belt system is just another way for the dojos to fleece the student out of more money.





Some dojos go as far as watering down belt-level requirements to extend the time frame of a promotion which eventually does the student injustice as they do not learn what they should have learned quick enough.





They string you along for years, and when you start getting bored, they promote you to a new belt to keep you interested all the while collecting your fees.





In some schools/arts like mcdojo karate schools, students wont be able to properly DEFEND THEMSELVES until black belt - meanwhile the military train fighters in a matter of months.





I miss the days when the only belts around were the ones that whipped and lacerated a student%26#039;s back for doing a move wrong - with this, at the very least, the student learned how it felt to get your as* kicked.|||Anyone stupid enough to think of a belt in that way deserves what they get (a kick up the...). In my dojo, %26quot;the minimum%26quot; will not get you your belt, you must know your stuff- all of it. Any clubs/dojos/organisations that practise otherwise shouldn%26#039;t be in practise. And the %26quot;animosity%26quot; is not that, its called respect for someone of a higher level than you. It teaches you manners and respect. All the brown and black belts I know aren%26#039;t silly enough to pick fights just because they can (again, any brown or black belts who do that shouldn%26#039;t have that ranking)... I%26#039;ll finish here because I%26#039;m starting to waffle on...





Clearly you haven%26#039;t done martial arts before, your question was a little downgrading.|||Okay





honestly i know martial arts is about inner peace, but lets set its straight





in the us people do martial arts because they feel they lack strength or fighting prowess








so when youre a black belt youre like d00d ill toaly pwn all those bullys when they try and jump my ***





but the fact is that those bullys might be able to whoop youre *** around so fast its not even funny





but the bullys would be a white belt


martial arts belts systems are so that this little 9 year old here is a brown belt, and im a yellow belt and im 24 wtf?





yet in reality you would beat the 9 year old senseless





so why is the kid better in a martial arts system, but inferior to me in the skills the martial arts system teaches me to be proficient at?


which is self control, and face it, FIGHTING|||Part of being the student is to understand that there is ALWAYS someone better. Instructors need to teach students restraint as well as self defense. It doesn%26#039;t always happen, I see too many kids (high belts) thinking that they%26#039;re the sh*t. It falls to the instructor and the student to be the best person you can be.





When people mess with me, I just tell them %26quot;I don%26#039;t like to fight, but I%26#039;m good at it.%26quot; They usually leave me alone.|||I think that the belt system IS a real false sense of security. Kids brag about %26quot;Oh I have a black belt oh you have a red belt%26quot; It%26#039;s kind of discriminating. It%26#039;s more of sensei approval, yeah, more that than actual talent. In Wudang kung fu, one of my father%26#039;s taoist brothers has three students on their knees carrying rocks up a mountain, doing impossible things, for THREE YEARS and he hasn%26#039;t taught them a thing yet. How%26#039;s that for worthiness?|||%26quot;A black belt only covers two inches of your a**, you have to cover the rest of it%26quot; --Royce Gracie





Love the Gracies or hate them, it%26#039;s the truth.|||Not exactly what you are asking but this may help http://www.directory.martialarm.net a martial arts directory by location.|||The one giving the belt is guilty. You are only worth the effort you put in training and sparring. Instructors should always stress on this.|||yes. unless they get higher up where they actually do understand how it works|||yes that is true......BUT at good gyms. that would not happen|||I agree the belt system is far from ideal, but don%26#039;t expect it to disappear any time soon. In fact, I think you are going to start seeing belts at Muay Thai and MMA gyms pretty soon (I know of at least one in my area that has started using them).





Belts are actually pretty good for keeping students motivated. Since many martial arts students don%26#039;t compete other than maybe sparring in class, belts give them something to aim for and accomplish. But I agree they are often pretty meaningless when it comes to fighting skill.|||You cover most of the points here and I agree for the most part. The rank system in many cases distracts the students who generally have the mistaken notion that if they are a certain rank they have certain abilities. We have all also seen how different the knowledge and ability between two martial artists of the same rank can vary greatly.





Elimination of the rank system would make each of us have to constantly train. We would be known by what we could do rather than what belt we held. While this has merit, there are other considerations. First if the ranks system was done away with (in all arts, which will never happen), many martial arts students would simply not train. Many of the students that might start training in the future would never start training. In todays society and especially in the Western countries, people have come to expect instant gratification. We have become lazy and expect to be rewarded for every little thing we do. Many of the McDojo would go out of business. I have no problem with that.





PERSONAL NOTE: I have studied many different arts over the last 41 years. With that I have a number of high ranks, titles, ...etc. However you may notice that I do not mention those. This is because To me they are only paper. The certificates and awards can%26#039;t defend me. My worth as a martial artist comes down to this. What can I do today. How well can I defend myself today. How much do I really understand today.


One of my instructors had the opportunity to train 6 days a week privately with a Japanese master that was living in the U.S.A. for a while. One day the Master told my instructor that he was moving back to Japan. My instructor asked if he was going to be tested for rank. His master told him no that he would not be tested. When asked why, the master said, %26quot;If I promote you, you will hang the certificate on the wall and tell everyone that you are ??? rank, However, if I do not promote you, you will have to continue to train to maintain your abilities%26quot;. How true this statement is!|||Where did Ksnake learn his history. what happened was Jigoro Kano(founder of Judo) wanted a way to show his dan ranks from his kyu this the black and white belt. Only when it came to the west did the other colored belts began. As far as the belt system we need it to show skill. Would you want a guy who went to class maybe twice a month for 10 years teaching you. He could say he had 10 years of experience but it would really equal about 2.5. In a decent system this guy would progress extremely slowly if even at all. Now for the guy who went to class 12-16 times a month for ten years. He would have advanced to a 2nd or 3rd degree BB in most systems. Only 1st in BJJ though :). The animosity among students would have been there anyway human beings are constantly in rivalry agains ttheir peers. They want to show themselves as the best. This sense of rivalry often creates better fighters.


As far as no BB wanting to take on an inmate, hells angel, demon etc. I%26#039;d take a Judo, BJJ, or Kyokushin Karate BB over said thug any day.





If I could rearrange everything I%26#039;d make it so the belt system is based on skill not I%26#039;ve been here X amount of years so give me a BB. Many MA have been succesful w/o belts. Muay Thai, Kickboxing, Sambo, Wrestling, Boxing etc.





The belt system is good as an incentive when used correctly. When misused by chains such as ATA Tae Kwon Do the belt system loses it%26#039;s value and does give them a false sense of security.





Sry for the long reply hope it helped though.